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Cant make this easy for anyone, so what is your 5 favorite fantasy epic's/series.
1. The Lord of the Rings by Tolkien
2. Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan
3. The Belgariad by David Eddings
4. Shannara series by Terry Brooks
5.(tie) Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind
5.(tie) Riftwar saga by Raymond Feist
1. The Lord of the Rings by Tolkien
2. Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan
3. The Belgariad by David Eddings
4. Shannara series by Terry Brooks
5.(tie) Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind
5.(tie) Riftwar saga by Raymond Feist
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Tue, October 19, 2004 - 8:20 PMThe first Amber series can beat the pants off most any other fantasy series for writing, plotting, or characters. Zelazny was one of the best writers the field ever had.
The second series starts out well, then goes to hell for a couple of books, then redeems itself again by the last book. So ten books in all, and all are worth reading, 8 are superior stuff.
The new "Amber" series isn't, in my less-than-humble opinion. It isn't Amber (as defined by its creator) and it isn't worth reading. -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Wed, October 20, 2004 - 5:46 PMthe first series is definitely amasterpiece of fantasy writing. the second one isnt as good but i like how his treatment of magic is related to AD&Ds spell memorization (especially if it came out before AD&D came up with that system...)
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Wed, October 20, 2004 - 2:16 AMRedwall series by Brian Jacques.
I don't tend to read series books as a habit. I hate waiting for the next book to come out. Reading the Redwall series was a happy accident. -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Wed, October 20, 2004 - 9:47 AMI despise Redwall. I read the first five books in the series, don't ask me why. It's the same bullshit over and over again, battles, feasts, battles, feasts, and all throughout there is idiotic "comic relief" involving either moles or hares. There is also a disturbing racist undertone in the idea that you can tell who is evil by what species they are.
I have read interviews with Brian Jacques and he strikes me as a right-wing scumbag who seeks to inculcate children with simplistic "good vs. evil" morals.
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Wed, October 20, 2004 - 9:37 AM1. The Vlad Taltos books, by Steven Brust (okay, this is a stretch for an epic, but it deserves mention anyway)
2. A Song of Ice and Fire, by George R. R. Martin
3. The Dark Tower, by Stephen King
4. The Empire Trilogy, by Raymond Feist and Janny Wurts
5. The Valdemar/Heralds books (barring her last Alberich book), by Mercedes Lackey, and the related Tarma/Kethry books -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Wed, October 20, 2004 - 10:26 AMwhy don't you call the Taltos books an epic? There is clearly a storyline with continuity from book to book. Not only that the continuity holds into his Other epic, The Phoenix Guards.
And at least his narrator admits to the inconsistencies in both storylines.
Lets add two of Tad Williams- Dragonbone Chair series & Otherland.OK, so Otherland is really SF... -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Wed, October 20, 2004 - 11:52 AMI just figured the Taltos books have a much more personal feel than I'd consider for an epic. *shrug* I still love 'em. The Khaavren Romances (Phoenix Guards, Five Hundred Years After, and the Viscount of Adhrilankha books) are more obviously an epic, but while I enjoy them, I vastly prefer the Taltos books.
If we were adding sci-fi, I'd have put Otherland on there. Memory, Sorrow and Thorn (Dragonbone Chair was the first book) was a letdown for me, and I wasn't particularly into it.
If I *was* adding sci-fi, I'd have to put C. J. Cherryh's Foreigner books on there, C. J. Cherryh's Faded Sun trilogy and David Brin's Uplift series.
And I've found a couple other fantasy epics I should have remembered, and would gladly replace Lackey and Feist/Wurts with:
sqrt(2)) C. S. Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy (am I the only person who desperately wishes she'd revisit this world?)
pi) Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Thu, October 21, 2004 - 11:05 AMYeah, Otherland is nominally SF, but Tad is primarily a fantasist, and anyone who has enjoyed his fantasy epics will enjoy this one, I think. It's richer in good characters and good story than most of what's out there.
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Wed, October 20, 2004 - 9:48 AMI haven't read many series but Michael Moorcock's Elric saga is die scheisse. -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Wed, October 20, 2004 - 5:40 PMi was just about to say that... also his "dancers at the edge of time" is of pretty epic proportions.
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Fri, October 22, 2004 - 8:12 AM
If you like the Elric series, you may also like uuummmm... I think it's Lustbader's Fafrd & Grey Mauser stuff. My husband really liked both and they have the same feel to the writing (IMO). -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Fri, October 22, 2004 - 1:06 PMYou mean Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and Grey Mouser... excellent stuff. Though I think there is alot more humor in Lankhmar than in the Elric Saga's Young Kingdoms, and it also feels much more "low fantasy"... more like Conan I guess. -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Sun, October 24, 2004 - 1:55 PMYeah, Leiber's fafhrd and the grey mouser. read a couple of those and liked them a lot. they're very "swords & sorcery" but are still lots of fun to read. Leiber's magical bazzare has been used by many fantasy writers and so are a lot of his other ideas. definitely a corner-stone of fantasy literature. -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Mon, October 25, 2004 - 11:00 AMThe first Fafhrd and Grey Mouser story was published in 1939 (same year Almuric, by Robert E. Howard was published), so in a strange way Leiber practically invented S&S fantasy while sort of sending it up at the same time. I think any writer setting out to write adventure fantasy, high, low, or right over the plate, would do well to read the Lankhmar stories.
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Wed, October 20, 2004 - 11:59 AMCan't think of five, but Isobelle Carmody's Obernewtyn Chronicles would be top of my list. Just wish she'd hurry up and write the next one...
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Thu, October 21, 2004 - 7:57 PMElric books
Lord of the Rings
Dark Tower books
Imajica -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Thu, October 21, 2004 - 8:13 PMAlthough on the more juvenile side I always enjoyed Patricia McKillips Riddle Master Trilogy. -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Fri, October 22, 2004 - 2:06 AMWow, I read that so long ago. I had forgotten. Good books.
Although, I still kick myself when I think of the day when I bought the book, and had the chance to see Patricia McKillip in person at the same store later in the day, but didn't make it back. :C
(Wow, I just realized that was almost exactly 27 years ago, this month. Can't recall which day, precisely...)
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Fri, October 22, 2004 - 8:52 AM1. LOTR
2. Dark Elf/IWD novels (13 or so so far).
3. Ill Met in Lankhmar (Fafhrd & the Grey Mouser).
4. Tower of the Elephant, Coming of Conan (R.E. Howard).
5. Elric of Melnibone` -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Fri, October 22, 2004 - 1:23 PMSOme of what are being called "epics" (note: NO apostrophe)
are actually what should be called either "series" ie: The Lankhmar stories- there is no continuity from story to story other than the main characters. Or "mythos" such as Darkover or Pern- a great deal of continuity and overlapping storylines, containing some 'extended" storyline.
I think to be properly called an "epic" it has to tell a single story, possible containing flashbacks, from beginning to end.
Hasn't anybody read Robin Hobb? One world, two epics overlapping by the seventh book or so.
The "Assassin" epic & the " Liveship Traders" epic. -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Fri, October 22, 2004 - 1:49 PMI rather enjoyed the liveship trader series. I havent read the assassin books as of yet. -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Fri, October 22, 2004 - 2:38 PMI too have only read the Liveship traders series, although I am very interested in picking up the Assassin series, as well.
I would also like to put another vote in for Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned him. Any of you who haven't read him need to pick him up--this is what I would call the greatest epic high fantasy series of our time. -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Sun, October 24, 2004 - 7:38 PMI can't believe anyone has mentioned "Earthsea" yet, which is one of the best fanatsy ever written.
The same goes for the "Fionavar cycle" by Kay, since we are talking about high fantasy.
I agree about Martin's series "Song of Ice and Fire". It is wonderful story telling and I can't wait for the next book.
I agree with the comment that some series are just that, a lot of books in a row. A series doesn't make an epic. I think an epic has to be grand in scheme and execution and is usually steeped in history (may that be made up by the author or fictionalized history as Kay does, ie.: his Sarantium books). That historical depth is of utmost importance though. Tolkien did this and he was the master. -
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Re: Favorite Epics
Tue, October 26, 2004 - 3:06 PMArrgh! Kay's Fionavar was even one of the ones I *meant* to list as additionals... I just forgot it between starting the post and finishing it. Heh. Definitely another vote for Fionavar. Tigana deserves a vote, too, but it's not really an epic (being only one book, and all).
As for being steeped in history, some series mentioned seem to be more about the creation of history than being steeped in it themselves (Feist's Riftwar, for instance; they're early history of the Midkemian game world... The Shannara books seem that way too, from what I've been told; I have a completely unreasonable distaste for them, and won't read them myself... Amber is kinda by its very nature about creation of history).
Oddly enough, IMO Valdemar started out as just a series, and *became* steeped in history when she started writing some of the history in other books.
While Brust's Taltos books might seem to just be a series (especially given the noir-ish feel the books have), Brust sneaks a grand scale in behind Vlad's back, and sneaks more history in there than one expects in that style of book. This series always struck me as a kind of "hidden" epic, even before the publication of the related Khaavren "historical" books.
So I think that while your opinion of what makes a series "epic" is pretty much right on the money, I think there are some books that push the boundaries of those criteria. -
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Re: Favorite Epics
Tue, October 26, 2004 - 4:07 PMI wouldn't say that your distaste for the Shannara series is unreasonable and I wouldn't call it an epic, it's just a cheap tolkienesque ripp-off in my opinion. But that's just my own biased view point.
I agree with you on the historical part. There are always such authors who push the boundaries of their particular "genre" and I for my part love them for it.
So, here's a question for you then. Have you read the Kushiel series by Jacqueline Carey? And would you consider it an epic? -
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Re: Favorite Epics
Tue, October 26, 2004 - 4:12 PMI have not read Carey's Kushiel series yet, though it's on my to-read list... I'm in the midst of the Dark Tower series right now, as I decided to start reading it when he published the last book. :D I'm interspersing them with my first reading of many Discworld novels, as well. When I've read them, I might resurrect this thread to discuss whether they're epic or not. -
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Re: Favorite Epics
Tue, October 26, 2004 - 4:19 PMAwesome.
I love Discworld and I also liked the Dark Tower series.
Be careful with the Kushiel series, it has a nice dark twist to it. ;-) -
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Re: Favorite Epics
Tue, October 26, 2004 - 4:30 PMDiscworld is a series, not an epic.
According to the Oxford Universal Dictionary :
1) of or pertaining to narrative poetry which celebrates the achievments of some heroic person of history or tradition.
any imaginative workembodying a nation's conceptionof its past history or of incidents in it.
I still say the Taltos books are epic.
Although in the vernacular, epic simply means Looooooooooong. -
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Re: Favorite Epics
Tue, October 26, 2004 - 4:49 PMI never said Discworld was a series, I was just mentioning what I was reading before I get to the Kushiel books. ;)
I agree about Taltos, though my first reaction was that they weren't one (as one can read above). My second reaction can also be read above, heh.
Merriam-Webster's second definition of epic as an adjective seems more in line with what I think of when I think "epic" in a general sense:
"2 a : extending beyond the usual or ordinary especially in size or scope b : HEROIC"
(where the relevant defs of "heroic" are:
"1 : of, relating to, or resembling heroes especially of antiquity
2 a : exhibiting or marked by courage and daring b : supremely noble or self-sacrificing
3 a : of impressive size, power, extent, or effect : POTENT"
)
Seems to fit what I think of as an epic, especially when you consider that "extending beyond the usual or ordinary" in scope could easily refer to referencing a deep, immersive or organic history.
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Re: Favorite Epics
Tue, November 2, 2004 - 3:44 AMTrue. I only mentioned the Jacques books, because other people were mentioning different series of books. I didn't consider it an 'epic'.
I haven't read the LOTR books. I have only read The Hobbit. (I have the books, I just haven't read them...)
I don't consider ALL trilogies as epics, either. I enjoyed the Riddlemaster Of Hed trilogy, but I don't think of it as epic.
I don't think I've really read anything I would consider as "epic".
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Re: Favorite Epics
Tue, October 26, 2004 - 11:27 PMI don't think I would really call Kushiel epic. More of a series. It is borderline. I'm also trying to figure out if Glen Cook's Black Company Series is an epic. Its right on the border, hovering...I suppose it could be. Well, be it epic or otherwise, its another great series.
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Tue, October 26, 2004 - 7:13 PMI like all of these but would probably change the order... I love Feist and Eddings... Humour goes a long way with me and I think these guys aren't afraid of throwing a few laughs into their work.
Thanks for not putting Thomas Covenant on your list...
Since these are your favs... Can you maybe add to the list? I'm desperate for something new. -
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Wed, October 27, 2004 - 4:20 AMWell some of the newer really good fantasy authors I have read are.
Sara Douglas and the Wayfarerer Redemption Series.
Michael Stackpole and teh Dragonwar Cycle
Curt Benjamin and the Seven Brothers Series
Joanne Bertin
Thomas Harlon (I have only read the first one called the Shadow of Ararat)
JOhn Marco Tyrant and Kings Series
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Re: Favorite Epic's?
Mon, November 1, 2004 - 4:51 PM1. Ffhard and Gray Mouser by Fritz Leiber
2. His Dark Materials Trilogy by Phillip Pullman
3. Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe
4. CONAN by Robert Howard!!!
5. Bridge of Birds by Barry Hughart
